A Personal Story with Kyle Hoffman
Join Michelle Renee as she talks with her colleague, Kyle Hoffman, about his personal connection to Soft Cock Week.
Kyle Hoffman is a life coach and professional cuddler out of the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. You can learn more at cuddlingandcoaching.com.
The host, Michelle Renee, is a surrogate partner, intimacy guide, and professional cuddler located in San Diego, CA. You can learn more at meetmichellerenee.com.
For more information about Soft Cock Week, go to SoftCockWeek.com, which includes resources, events, and even soft cock love notes.
Notes from this show:
Demisexuality is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close emotional bond with them. Forming a bond doesn’t guarantee a person will feel a sexual attraction, but the bond is needed before sexual activity is even possible. Per Cleveland Clinic
Come as You Are by Emily Nagoski
Barry McCarthy on Smart Sex, Smart Love with Joe Kort
Art of Receiving and Giving: The Wheel of Consent by Betty Martin and Robyn Dalzen
MEN’S CUDDLING GROUP: HOW IT WORKS IN REDEFINING MASCULINITY
Some of Michelle's Favorite resources for sex ed:
Come As You Are (linked above)
Netflix's The Principles of Pleasure
Rough Transcript:
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:01.168)
Welcome to Soft Cock Week. I think this is like my third interview for this week. I don't know what order they're going to come out in, but welcome everyone listening. I'm Michelle Renee. I'm a surrogate partner, intimacy guide, and professional cuddler in San Diego. And today I get to talk to one of my colleagues, Kyle Hoffman. I've known Kyle for quite a few years, and he can talk maybe in his intro.
how long he's been with Cuddlist, because that's how I know him. And he was so generous to reach out and say, I want to support Soft Cock Week. What are the options? And I have like a menu of ways that my colleagues can support this. And he was so generous to say, I'll just come on and talk about my experience and my relationship to Soft Cock Week. So thank you, Kyle, for being here.
Tell us a little bit about you.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:00.766)
Yeah, Michelle, thank you for that introduction. It's so, it's a pleasure to get to spend time with you and this community. So yeah, I'm Kyle Hoffman, he, his. I've been professionally, I do life and intimacy coaching and touch and cuddle therapy. And often I combine touch work with coaching together. Also lead workshops around cuddling and emotional physical intimacy.
clothing optional spaces and I've been expanding more this year into one-on-one work some closing up clothing optional work and sensual work. Yeah, professionally been doing this work for a little over five years and I've been on a personal journey around my own sexuality and body for a lot longer than that. And as I just
like thinking before it came on, one, I was noticing that I felt some nervousness and fear because the old tapes in my head are like, oh, if I'm public about the fact that my cock isn't hard and ready to go all moments of the day, then my dating life will be ruined. Like, I'll never have sex again. Yeah, so first, I wanted to start there, wow, noticing how-
At least my experience, how powerful those messages that story is.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (02:30.04)
Yeah, even for like you volunteered to do this, right? There was a point where you're like, yeah, I'm comfortable talking about this. And then it turns into like, but what does this mean about me? Which is the exact reason why we're doing this is like even, you know, we have this mutuality in working in touch and I too, I'm coaching in that space more than I'm not coaching in that space. And I like to share with.
clients, like I'm still on my journey. I don't expect me ever to be in a, I've mastered everything and there is no more work to be done. We're all just practicing. So thank you for being vulnerable about those feelings coming up. Those are familiar feelings. I know I tackle them too. So thanks for doing it anyways. Like it's the difference between an edge and a boundary, right? You're like stretching yourself, but you're not violating your boundaries.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (03:17.998)
Mmm.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (03:25.634)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think part of my desire to share that, people listening is that, is that, yeah, I don't think any of us also, like I said, I don't think any of us expect people to feel totally comfortable about their penis or body parts, however it's showing up that, because I know for me and the self,
Michelle Renee (she/her) (03:27.028)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (03:55.75)
I'm so into self-growth that sometimes I can judge myself for not being like evolved enough like oh I should be more comfortable I should be told of no negative feelings about my penis whatsoever. So yeah, I appreciate that. We're all on the journey And I mean, yes, I think it's you feel free to guide me and like one story about my own experience that I like to share and I think it's
I think it's helpful and like it would have been lovely for me to hear it like earlier in my life was Somewhere in my mid 20s I had Challenges at times like having erections when having sex I don't know exactly why it started Definitely though then my performance anxiety and like
overly focusing on it, like increase the snowball as far as the challenge having erection. And I feel like I really experienced the...
unevolved and like not as evolved as what I'd like and not as educated what I like. Kind of our culture and even like medical system around like I talked to my doctor and I was like young 20s very healthy. He's like oh well I could give you a Viagra and the little bit that I know I was like wait like I don't think that's the right way to go and like that's like your first line of defense. So and I had yeah researched and heard some before that.
I think often for, and I'm not a medical professional, medical advice, but just warnings about Viagra. And then actually what really helped me was doing some talk therapy about it and one therapist recommending that I slow down the pace at, I mean,
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (06:11.914)
slow down how quickly I get to especially penetrative sex because that especially while using condoms was the place that most time I was like yeah challenges of not being erect when I wanted to and that was super helpful that was probably the most helpful thing I got and it also gave me unexpected benefits of like in general like oh wow
I really enjoyed this slowing this down more. I'm like, I'm actually enjoying the moment more and it's feeling more intimate than, so that was also helpful to get me off of like the goal oriented.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:54.688)
The PIV train, right? The penis and vagina train of like, this is what sex is and anything else just isn't real. Yeah, can I ask you more? Like, so a lot of times I get, I thank you for saying that this started in your early 20s because I think sometimes we think that erectile disappointment is something that happens when we're older. And so when we're younger and we're having this issue, it must just be us.
There is nobody else because I'm not old yet. That I think is an important topic to talk about. What I hear you say is that, correct me if I'm wrong, that with condom use you would lose your erection or that knowing you needed to use a condom, it broke the chain of
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (07:27.148)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:49.764)
of energy? Like how would you describe how that was coming up back then or not coming up back then? There's so many puns in this week. Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (07:57.11)
Love it. Can't wait. This is going to be so good. Let's see. So, like I think my biggest challenge of that time and even though like I'm learning as we go and even though I'm like conscious of the word like challenge, is that really the right word? But anyways, the thing that felt like a challenge at the time was me.
being erect enough to have penetrative sex, to start, and then to keep going, like my penis not getting too soft, or staying hard enough such that like a condom would stay on. So I think there's a number of reasons why penetrative sex, I had more challenges staying erect. One.
it was more obvious. Well, I felt like for me it was more of a big deal if I got soft, because then, okay, maybe we have to stop, or have to like, or condom would, maybe I have to do a new condom, whereas if I was, let's say, like receiving oral sex or pleasure from hands, I feel a lot more comfortable with my erection or state of my penis like flowing, because I feel like it wasn't as much of a break in the thing, it just, so.
So then I was worrying more, of course, worrying more about the penetrative sex worrying about am I gonna stay hard, yeah, just not as much pleasurable stimulation because of that physical barrier in between. I'm not a huge proponent of condoms, but that was just part of it for me. Yeah, so I think that those are the main reasons and that little bit of...
of like, okay, now I'm pausing to put on the condom and uh-oh, and then the worry of uh-oh is my erection gonna go down in that little break while I'm like changing my brain from kind of being more emotional to like, practical.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:08.412)
Yeah. Well, I love that you got the recommendation to slow down. I kind of, how do you feel about pausing real quick to be like, okay, and now here's a tip from a pro. Like I, if I was better at editing, I would be like, I would pause this and I would come in with like, okay, and here's some workarounds here, just in case this is a situation for you at home. Um, what comes to mind is a couple things. One, I often tell clients to start masturbating with a condom on.
as a way to like desensitize to that having a condom on and the difference of it, right? Just because it is a different sensation. That's one tip that I give people. The other one is try using internal condoms on your partner so that you're not having to actually put a condom on. The internal condom could be placed inside the vagina before sex even started, right? So there's some work arounds If that is the thing that's holding or hanging up the person at home listening to this,
those might be two really wonderful things to try. So I just wanted to throw that in there, but ultimately I love the overall theme of slowing down and getting away from that hard penis focused or centered version of intimacy, sexual intimacy, yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (11:30.154)
Yeah, yeah, thank you, Michelle. Yeah, please jump in at any time. And I, at some point, I definitely remember masturbating with a condom. I don't remember who told me that or when, but yeah, I feel like that was definitely helpful for me for both the sensation as well as the confidence of, maybe the experience and the confidence of, oh, I can masturbate for a while and stay erect for a while.
Because I think mainly the thing occurring for me with a partner was fear. It was like performance anxiety, fear of judgment, fear of, oh, if I don't perform this way, will she call me back, whatever. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:18.056)
And that's a surefire way to have erectile issues, right? Like, and then when you get into that loop and all you're thinking about is fixing the erection, you're not gonna fix the erection. It's like you have to let go of the erection so that it can even come back. It's like that weird relationship excuse, like set it free. Like set it free and if it returns, it was meant to be, right? It's like set the erection free.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (12:22.786)
I'm sorry.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (12:28.066)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:48.492)
And if it returns, great. And if it doesn't, and this is, okay, as a surrogate partner, probably the number one when working with cis men is like, fix my dick. Why do I have these ED issues? And I don't have a magic wand. And it's so hard when they first start the work for them to hear me say this. I say it, I don't think they listen to me. I think they just, yeah, yeah. I can't, I have no magic.
for your erectile issues, right? It might be that slowing down helps. It might be that building safety in the relationship, which is also part of the slowing down, I think. Slowing down the whole relationship, not just when we're in physical contact with each other, but that might be the thing that fixes it. But what if we got away from the idea of fixing it, right? And just...
being in connection with another person, however our bodies are showing up. Because you might have an issue with your erection, but your partner, especially if you're in a heterosexual relationship, might also be having a similar issue, but you can't see it the same way. Right? So how would we like to connect right now? What would feel good to me right now? And it doesn't have to be even anything sexual. There are so many other ways to connect and build intimacy.
My soapbox. So Kyle, so going back to your story. So you took the advice and you slowed things down. What happened next? Bring us back.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (14:31.998)
Yeah, and, I don't know, this, when I got to say, Michelle, I feel like this, I'm gonna, I might look back and be like, oh, this was the moment where like, I, I stepped even more in my career, like more, even like more specifically, or majority focused on sexuality, cause this is just so much fun for me, so thank you, loving it. Yeah. But one, I wanted to specify that,
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:35.86)
I'm just going to sit here and listen.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:54.153)
happy to do this with you.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (15:00.974)
For me, slowing it down meant instead of having this old track of, like, oh, if we're going to be sexual, the first time that we're sexual, it has to go to penis and vagina sex and orgasm. Yeah. To, oh, maybe the first time we'll make out and we'll...
have some hands touching and nothing more. Or maybe you'll go to like oral and nothing more, like the first time and maybe even two or three or four dates or times that were sexual together. And that was so amazing for me because it built more emotional closeness. And I don't even know if I knew this back then, but I've really been noticing that I'm, I'd say more and more I'm.
I'm demisexual and like sapiosexual. So emotional connection is really important for my sexual turn on, intellectual connection really. So yeah, feeling that with someone. So that really helped the turn on for me be stronger and my penis more erect when I wanted to. And we were also getting closer and I was feeling more secure in the relationship. So.
I didn't have as much of a worry of, oh, if this doesn't go how I hope this time, like our relationship, our dating is going to end. So those were all, yeah, really helpful for me. And I notice, I think I still notice this, that I get so, so much more comfortable over time when with a new partner, the first time, the second, third, fourth, fifth, like.
Yeah, I mean, in so many ways, and that allowed, I think, my body to just, to be more in my sensation, more in the moment, and at times it means like being erect versus having my energy and focus in my head.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:11.052)
Yeah. Where like, where is your like, where is your thoughts at? Right. I have I'm working with a client around the same issue right now. And, you know, if all we're thinking about is what's happening with our penis, how are we even enjoying this other person in the space with you? Right. Like it's like it's like meditation. Your your thoughts drift.
Maybe his thoughts drift back to what's happening with his erection or not having an erection. And be like, no, just bring it back. Can I follow? Where is my body in contact with Michelle's body? Right? Can I pinpoint where are her fingertips? Like, and that's how I kind of direct him back, like a meditation practice. It's not bad that you thought about your penis, but let's just bring it back to the present and what's happening right now in your body.
and not think about what's happening specifically with the erection. Maybe it's thinking about what does this touch feel like for Michelle on my penis or some other part of my body rather than how it's responding.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (18:24.862)
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:26.528)
There's so much education that we're missing, right? A lot of what I think about this is like, if we just had more robust sex education to say, like not using porn as our education, because porn sex isn't real sex. Like it's just, it's like a podcast, right? We can edit, do all these things. Kyle and I might have a part of this conversation that later we decide we don't wanna show.
Right? It's the same thing with porn, right? We might have areas we don't want to show, or the porn isn't showing, you know, what it takes to get ready to be in a place to have sex. I didn't know about responsive versus spontaneous desire until after my first marriage ended. And to kind of catch everyone up, if you learn something new, Kyle, that's cool. But in the book, Come As You Are,
Everyone should read it, whether you're a vulva owner or not, because I think it's, I think we all, it's written, written directed towards women, but it's, the message is still the same. And I think men are really losing out on this. They need, you guys need to understand, everybody needs to understand that we don't all get hit with a lightning bolt of sexual desire. Right? And I think men are so used to, or penis owners are so used to, oh, my dick is hard.
I should go fuck something. It's time for the sex, my dick is hard. And if you are not a spontaneous desire person or it has changed, and sometimes that changes because we get more, we're in a new phase in our relationship, right? Something, it's not bad, it's just different, right? So to know that you might...
not be a spontaneous desire and that it's a responsive desire, which means I have to be aroused before sexual desire shows up. And you might go, how does that work? Right? It's like you've got to have that owner's manual to how sex works for you. And so for me, I have brakes and accelerators. Like you press the gas pedal or you press the brake.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:50.104)
And if you are pressing the brake while pressing the gas, you're still not going to go anywhere, right? So for me, one of my accelerators is hearing my partner's sounds. I love moans, sighs, all that stuff, very audible. I don't even need a picture. Just hear some stuff in my ear. That's my accelerator. My brake, which can be so self-imposed if I'm not careful, is expectations of having sex.
Right? So if either my partner is expecting sex or I'm expecting sex, shuts me down. Right? So I have to like play a little like, you know, mental gymnastics with myself and say, we're not going to go have sex. We're going to go be together, connect, probably get naked and cuddle and talk, fill my connection bucket.
Right. And then as we're in just like, you know, just casual contact with each other, things start to, you know, the thoughts start to change. If I touch something that I know and I know how to do this, I know there's certain things I can do that elicit a certain response from my partner, which then gets me aroused. And then the sexual desire can come online. And then we're off to the races. Right.
But if you don't know that because you haven't had that education, I thought I was broken. You know, when I was married, it was, why don't you want sex? And I just thought, I clearly, I'm just broken. And then I read come as you are, and I cried because I'm not broken. Right? I just need to know how I work and we all work differently. Right? So, so, so Kyle, have you figured out with some of your
brakes and accelerators are and not from a place of to get to PIV sex, not to get to a place to be hard enough, right? And you can have PIV sex without being as hard as if you were wanting to have like anal sex that requires a very, very rigid cock, right? The entrance is very different for those two locations, right? So have you figured out your brakes and accelerators?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (23:11.962)
Well, one, I think it's new terminology for me, so one, I love that. And it was really relating to you that for me, I think like expectation is a, I guess like a double edged sword or two sided coin. Sometimes for me, it can really turn me off or just feels like yucky or weird or yeah, I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Yep, perfect.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:37.804)
Pressure, right? Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (23:40.654)
pressure and then yeah it starts like oh well what if I'm not aroused or etc. And also expectation can be incredibly sexy and hot like not with photos but like texting about sex things like that beforehand.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:55.196)
Yeah, the buildup, right? It's like, where's the line between buildup and expectation, right? And I think it comes down to, sorry, I don't wanna derail this, but I think this is where our work comes into play here. I think it comes down to, am I safe with this partner to say no if I change my mind, right? And that is like the key for me is that I have a super.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (24:02.07)
Awesome.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (24:23.46)
wonderfully comfortable relationship where I can do that and not have any negative feelings about it coming from my partner. Right? We all probably, I mean, yeah, it's, you know, if you're really revved up and your partner can't meet you there, we have options of other things to do, right? But like nothing feels worse than a partner that mopes and can't come in with a thank you for taking care of yourself.
I want my no to be maybe celebrated is a strong word, but really I want it to be celebrated. That I'm taking care of myself and that my partner knows that I'm not putting myself in something that I don't want to be in because it will not feel the same. And honestly, it will hurt the future. It will hurt the future. You will not be able to show up. It reminds me of
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (24:57.739)
Ideally, yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:22.8)
You might have heard this back in Cuddlist training back in the day, because I remember Madelon Guinazzo telling the story a lot, but some study about kids in a playground and how when they have, and this came up on another episode that I recorded the other day, when they have a good fence line, they actually get farther away from the teacher or the person holding the space. They can take more chances because they know there's a container. Right.
And I think of the yes and the no as that container of, I can take the risk of saying, yeah, I wanna connect with you. Because if I didn't have the ability to say no, I might not be willing to even take the risk of jumping into bed with you and building that connection with you. I might just go, I'm not in the mood. I'm not in the mood.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (26:15.242)
Yeah, for whatever reason, busy or whatever it is, it's, yeah, and you, well, I don't want to speak for you, I'll say I'll speak myself, and I may actually not be in the mood because of what, because that fear or concern of person having expectations for me, yeah, is a turnoff, and I think you're speaking to it so well, that difference for me. I want me and my partner to be able to fully express ourselves in the moment.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:18.154)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (26:45.398)
Um, hmm, this, this feels, this feels edgy for me. It sounds like on here I can talk about like specific. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, uh, so it was like, uh, very recently, um, there's gonna be a meeting with a dating meeting and, and said something like, let's see how long they say it was. It was this year said, uh, like, you know, may have been, uh, may have been.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:51.881)
You can talk about whatever you want. Yeah, for sure.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (27:12.838)
dreaming of like face fucking you this morning, something like that. And that's so hot for both of us. And it's like expressing the moment. And when it works for me is when we both know that doesn't mean it actually has to happen tonight or ever. Like we both have hopes for that. Yeah, so that's I appreciate the conversation that helped me become more clear about.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (27:32.923)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (27:41.654)
what the difference is, like maybe expectations versus desire and hope in the moment.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (27:47.7)
Yeah, the idea is really hot of face fucking you, right? And cool if all the stars align and you want me to face fuck you. And I have the cock to face fuck you. Right. And sometimes those things never have to come into fruition. Right. Just because it's a fantasy does not mean it has to be reality. I can have I have lots of fantasies that I if I want to do something.
I am resourced enough that I have always been able to make that bucket list happen. I live a very privileged life. And there are still things that are on the list of that's really hot to think about, but I'm not interested enough to make it happen, you know, unless it shows up in the moment. I spit on someone the other day. Didn't know I wanted to do that, right? But I probably won't find me sending a text message saying,
I really want to spit on you. Maybe, who knows? We all evolve.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (28:46.966)
Yeah, we certainly do. We certainly do. Well, if you want, I could go back to my, I think you had asked me kind of like, how did the story continue? Do you want me to go there or somewhere else? Okay, yeah. Let's go, great.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (29:00.628)
Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah, so I love little rabbit trails, like, or what do you call them? Little, yeah, rabbit holes, yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (29:07.546)
Yeah, for this podcast, we'll call it a hole. Yeah, so it was really those changes were really effective for me. I think I probably maybe at well, say is it went really, overall went really well with my partners, like slowing it down. I.
Um, generally just positive response. I think I had some fear at the mo at that time of like, Oh, will they just be disappointed that I don't want to have PIV sex or something at this time, but it was just really, really enjoyable. Um, and I remember, yeah, I mean, a positive experience was this woman said, Oh, actually, I think that was really good for me to have.
to have pleasure and then have an orgasm that didn't involve intercourse. She's like because that's such my go-to so that was positive for her. And and then as I had some experiences where this went well and then the first time that was having PIV sex with new partners, I was mostly erect how I wanted then my
confidence increased again or predictions and the performance anxiety decrease and it and it'll still show up a little bit but it that mostly yeah I'm so conscious of a person my first words to be like solved the issue but at the same time it's not but I think you know I'm saying it that's what changed it for me so it changed things for me
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:54.82)
I'm brave.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:59.068)
Yeah, yeah. That's, I mean, that's the thing. There's going to be people listening to this podcast that have some kind of diagnosis that says this erectile issue is, is permanent for whatever reason. And to them, I want to say the message is, you can still have sex, right? You can still have pleasure. You can still have orgasms. You can still masturbate. You can still do all the things are just going to be different.
for the people that are just dealing with some anxiety, performance anxiety, you know, the whole like, it happens once and then we just ruminate on that. And like, we're killing our boners that way. Like broadening the scope of what does sex mean to you can really keep you in play in like,
even going as far as saying your erection is not allowed here. What does that do? Sometimes that's the thing that really kicks it in. And maybe it's not right. But there's so many ways to have sex. And in. We just haven't been taught about all these things. I keep bringing up something I heard on a podcast with Joe Kort and Barry McCarthy.
Joe Court is a therapist in Detroit, and actually he's gonna end up on one of our episodes for soft cock week. And he was interviewing Barry McCarthy, who wrote really, who's written really great books, but two in particular that I have on my bookshelf, one for erectile dysfunction and one for premature ejaculation. And so he was talking, Barry was talking about in a lot of heterosexual relationships, the sex stops because the...
the man stops initiating because he doesn't have reliable erections. And it goes back to that learning about responsive desire, you know, in expanding the education. And yeah, it's different. They're not, you know, men's erections have been known to be easy. I don't know if that's if they're really easy, because I think that a lot of people get enough
Michelle Renee (she/her) (33:15.068)
intercourse or something like that, when they're not actually fully aroused. Just because your dick is hard doesn't mean that you're ready to move forward. You could have more pleasure. You could have more sensation maybe if you waited a little bit and built up a little bit. You could dial this in and tweak and do all the things, right? But ultimately, if you're thinking the only way you can have sex is...
with an erection, then I'd really challenge you to reevaluate what does sex mean? Is it just about getting to ejaculate?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (33:58.128)
Is it about connecting with your partner? Right? And like asking those questions, what would feel good to you right now? I just always think of like the sexy version of the three minute game, right? Where you put it all on the table. It's like, how would you like me to touch you for three minutes or 10 minutes or whatever your parameters are, right? And just getting to direct exactly what would feel good to you right now.
or how I want to touch you for 10 minutes in a way that would feel good to me. Like so often. So big surprise that a lot of people come to me with erectile issues, right? And I have this one client who is so lovely with his words and he's always sending me feedback stuff. And he always celebrates the way that I normalized having a soft penis, like in my presence, that I'm still very excited to be with him.
And there's something really wonderful, for me, very joyous about playing with a soft cock. That can be a really reparative process for people. So like for couples listening to this, if the partner can get really enthusiastic about how fun it is to pet them, right? A blowjob with a soft penis is so much easier.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (35:24.528)
But for some, it could probably go longer. And yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (35:24.84)
I have TMJ. My jaw gets, has a problem. And also I don't think of oral sex as something that has to go to orgasm, right? That's another thing that's an interesting breaking down what we think is supposed to happen. I remember, this is a pretty personal story, but I used to wake my partner up with a blowjob every morning and he didn't really appreciate it. And when I was, I was,
I was telling this story to my ex-husband and my ex-husband goes, he doesn't appreciate it. And I go, no, he just, you know, he doesn't seem to appreciate it enough. But I go, um, I only do it for a couple of minutes. It's just really to wake him up and start his day on a happy note. He goes, you don't make him come. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not putting that much work into it. This is just like almost like kissing you. Good morning. Like, can we, can we start to have little, little micro interactions like that?
If you have to take, I mean, that's why it has the name job on it, right? Like, if it has to become this thing that has to go to a certain point or you're not done.
Like play, you know, be playful. Stop when you feel done, right? Do it until it feels good. I remember working with a client and he's like, you should give classes on hand jobs. And I was like, I'm not doing anything other than being present and really enjoying what I'm doing. Right? It's like I'm doing it for me, not for you. And you know,
If people start to pull those things apart, again, back to like the wheel of consent, and I'll put in the show notes, like, go read the art of receiving and giving the wheel of consent by Buddy Martin and start to really look at who is this for, play with that with a soft penis. And I think, um, the world could really expand for you.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (37:26.506)
Yeah. Thank you, Michelle. And I realize as we're talking that, yeah, and I want to own that those, those initial words of like, oh, that like solved the issue for me. Like that was still like coming from, yeah, my old paradigm and an old teaching of, yeah, this, this is the goal or whatever. So, yeah, I, so, yeah, I definitely want to.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (37:46.621)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (37:52.202)
I want to keep what I share because I'm humanist and say what feels more accurate and better for me is really changing those things changed my experience in my body and made sex and connection more enjoyable in many ways. In many ways and actually the most, I think the biggest ones were...
the more slowing it down and being in the intimacy in the moment and savoring, more savoring. The words are like stewing in, it's not too super sexy, but in those new experiences, like really soaking in this experience of the first time that we're kissing versus like, okay, like we went through that for like 10, 15 minutes and like now onto the next new thing, yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (38:51.516)
Yeah, do you ever have a conversation with new partners around how you show up? Like, do you ever give like a, I don't want to use the word warning because again, it goes back to that, like this is a negative thing. But you're, I mean, you're somebody who is very communicative and I don't know if that translates into, you know, sexual situations. But for me, I know that, especially as a pro.
in this world. I kind of give the rundown. I kind of educate, do a little bit of education as we're about to play together for the first time of like, hey, these are things that are like, again, if there's an expectation, that's a turn off for me. I really love hearing sounds. That's a big turn on for me. It's kind of like part of the elevator speech of, you know, safer sex kind
Michelle Renee (she/her) (39:50.972)
Do you ever wonder, because you do run into this every once in a while, are you ever ready to pad the experience with like a, hey, just so you know, I'm super into you. And if my erection doesn't show up the way that we might think it would, it's not because I'm not into you. Right? Because I think a lot of people internalize that.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (40:15.274)
Yeah, that's a good point and a great question. I don't think I have in recent years. I may have said that more in the past, like when just my experience, my erections were different. Yeah, and what it does remind me of was one longer term partner that I was with.
while I was having some erection, just a disappointment. And even at that point, I feel like I evolved, I feel like I was significantly more comfortable with it. And yeah, she wasn't, she had, and it brought up her stuff of like, am I not sexy enough? Or am I doing something wrong? Or da da. And I was like, no, it's all good. And also actually, I understand, but like, but you, you like...
Worry about are getting upset or angry or whatever like that's actually just gonna like Yeah, I got a really decreased arousal and safety and erection. Yeah
Michelle Renee (she/her) (41:22.204)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. But it's so I remember when I first started dating after my divorce, I spent the first year just kind of, well, maybe not quite a year, but close to a year. Quote unquote dating, I'm just going to say fucking because I was not really dating. I was just kind of trying the buffet that was the I got married when I was 20, 21 to my high school sweetheart, hadn't had.
a lot of experience. I mean, there was some stuff inside the relationship, whether it be, you know, three ways and things like that. I also, I was a cheater. Old Michelle, Michelle 1.0, didn't know how to, how do I word this, did not have the toolbox to either extricate myself from that relationship or to actually work on the problems in that relationship. So.
Full disclosure in case my ex-husband's listening to this because he hates when I don't declare that I was a cheater.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:29.904)
Anyways, I didn't have a lot of experience. I didn't have a lot. I didn't have my 20s of sewing my oats says they say like I didn't have that. So I did spend a lot of time kind of trying things out. And I know for myself that I had to like, check myself that this was not about me. And that's really freeing. And it's still a practice.
It goes back to that whole just because we're pros doesn't mean that we've conquered all these things. They still show up sometimes. Like, oh my gosh, do I work on body confidence and sexual confidence and these things? And I'll tell you, I was with a play partner the other day in the words that crossed my head or my mind, do I deserve this? And I said those out loud just to, I need to get them out of my head.
and have it shut down, like, of course you deserve this, right? Like, we're not 100% spot on, we're still human beings with a history that creeps up once in a while, right? Which reminds me, I made myself a note from earlier when we were talking. I imagine part of that, like, old kind of stuff that comes up for you.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (43:36.5)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:54.2)
is like as a coach, you haven't fixed your dick, right? You know what I mean? Like, it's like to say that if I help a woman figure out why she hasn't been orgasming or why she's never orgasmed, that I never experience that myself, you know? Like there's still times, and I can tell you when it happens, if I have betrayed my yes and my no,
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (43:58.702)
Hmm
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:21.156)
If I have let a sexual encounter go farther than what I really wanted it to go because I want my partner to have a good time or whatever, it will shut me down for a couple of days. My body is like, whoa, bitch, you did that thing you used to do, right? You did that thing that you used to do that was really fucked up and traumatic for your body, right? Because coercion.
If you are being pressured into having sex, whether it's you're pressuring yourself, your partner's pressuring you, society is pressuring you, it lands in your body as if it was an assault. Even though we don't think of it as quite the same thing, our bodies are like, whoa, what are you doing? Right. And so for me, the minute I do that, it's like it becomes really difficult, almost like I lose my orgasm.
So again, learning to really be authentic in how you're showing up and making sure that yes and no exists and that you honor it.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (45:30.146)
Yeah, yeah, I saw.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (45:31.292)
Yeah, we always go back to that. I feel like everywhere in our type of work, whether we're working in platonic spaces or in sensual or erotic spaces, it's that same skill set. And how do you do it in an erotic space if you haven't mastered it in the platonic space?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (45:54.114)
Yeah, I so appreciate you, Michelle, and authenticity. It's reminding me of, I'm gonna paraphrase a quote of something like, like spend time with those who are seeking the truth and run from those who claim they've found it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (46:19.251)
Mmm, the gurus. Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (46:20.578)
Something like that, yeah. Yeah, I just, oh, I feel the chills and why it's a powerful quote for me. Yeah, and I'll relate that, yeah, this year, where I was with his first time sexual new partner, and I, yeah, and I was, I was going faster, like, as far as, in terms of sexual intimacy,
what I would have chosen for myself. Partly it was hot, because she was so into it. And partly, though, it was definitely, oh, I don't want to disappoint her, or want to call back, that kind of stuff. And then I did notice when we were going to have penis and vagina sex, I did notice some fear of mine, some of the old thoughts of like, oh, am I going to be hard enough, or da da? So yeah, so that's a great point of how.
when I don't honor myself, I'm not as authentic, then the older stuff or just my body is, yeah, it responds.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (47:34.415)
I, as we were telling earlier, I wanted to say that I, I now...
I now look back on a lot of the sex that I had in my 20s, and for reference in 2023, I'm 37. And I'm like, did I? How much of that did I actually enjoy? How much of that was I actually really present and enjoying and soaking it in? And
Because a lot of it was having the goal focused and it's like, probably it was a goal for me, but partly it was like, oh, I need to do this, I should do this to be a man to satisfy my partner. It just was like so less present. So in our conversation, I'm thinking about how I think that's a great example of the...
erection or having an orgasm during sex where like that doesn't make it good because like there were times where I did both of those things and I didn't enjoy that much. It wasn't like maybe it looked good from my camera or whatever, but I wasn't emotionally or mentally enjoying it that much my body that much because I was so focused on the task Yeah, I'm trying wanting to find a little better words to describe it, but hopefully I'm communicating it
Michelle Renee (she/her) (49:06.668)
Yeah, I was workshopping sex. That's what I would call it. I was workshopping sex. And it's worked out. I mean, it really helps me in what I do now because I can relate to a lot of different circumstances and situations where I'm like, oh, yeah, when I have a hard time getting out of my head enough, one of my little tricks up my sleeve back in the day was 69ing. That when you have a job to do,
You can, I could take the focus off of me and not even like not think about me so much enough that I could concentrate on the pleasure and not be in my head about what I'm doing or how I look or like all the critiques that you kind of go through sometimes when you're not able to be present. And then, and as I got better at being more confident in those spaces, then I was able to.
not rely on 69 is still one of my favorite things. I know it's a controversial one. It's one of those things people either hate it or they love it. It's like the word moist, they can't take, they can't stand it or it doesn't matter. It's a very, I love going on FetLife and you'll see somebody be like, I'll die on this hill, but 69ing is the best or the worst or whatever. And you'll just, you know, tons of comments. That's how you can really get engagement.
That'll be the poll that I'll put with this on Spotify where they let you ask questions. I'll be like, 69ing, is it a good thing or a bad thing? But I take that into my work now where I'm just like, oh yeah, well, this is a way to do it, but ultimately maybe you wanna get here. I don't know what everybody's sexual journey looks like or where they want to get to because you don't know what you don't know. But I was definitely workshopping sex back then. And now I think
Sex is very spiritual for me. It's better, like you said, like it gets better when you know the person more. Like, so for me, sex is just, yeah, everything in my relationship has gotten better the longer we've been together, which is not what I expected. I mean, I expect things to kind of peak and then level out, but like things are great on that side of things. And...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (51:29.08)
It's interesting being in an open relationship, technically an open relationship. I don't really crave connection with other people because I need such a depth. Like you say, demisexual. Like it has to be really intriguing for me to, like I must have a really good connection with the person to want to expand the connection. It's not just about going in to
do the sex thing. It's just about we're friends and we have this lovely connection. What would it be like to expand the connection? And it's definitely coming from a place of abundance rather than scarcity of like, I don't need the buffet of all the sexual partners anymore. Like it's, I'd rather have like the richness of one with depth than maybe the number of
of experiences doesn't matter as much to me anymore.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (52:33.194)
Yeah, yeah, I really, yeah, I mean, I relate to many things you're sharing. And I did remember to your question of, do I, like, do I give people heads up about some myself sexually or things? These days, sometimes I will say to someone that, oh, I'm finding I'm more like demisexual. So
Michelle Renee (she/her) (52:35.281)
Everybody's different.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (53:00.786)
Yeah, so one, I might like to take it slower than some people, or especially me if I'm noticing that maybe they want to move to sex, or like something sexual, like quicker than I do, like then I'll say that. And something that's been super fun is, I don't remember if it's new or a reemergence, like I've really been getting into teasing lately and this year, and so...
Um, that feels like that, that just like hits the nail in the head for me. Cause then, then I'm, I think in a very sexy and like culturally, more culturally accepted way and in a more normalized way, I'm getting to slow down or like choose the pace, um, and then there's that desire and then seeing their desire build increases my desire. So those are some things that I will. Yeah. Talk about. And, um,
I'm just kind of repeating, but I feel like, especially the talking about it in terms of teasing, has felt really good for me, because I think it's, I mean, it's more palatable for the other, for my partner, because.
teasing, I think it's associated with, oh, I'm still attracted to you, I'm interested in you, and I'm just wanting to build the tension and anticipation whereas, yeah, stoke the fire. Whereas if I sit down and get academic, well, I'm sapiosexual, and I think those are great words, and even for me, as I speak them, I just feel kind of like, errr, it just kind of decreases the sexual desire or tension or something.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (54:26.717)
Stoke the fire.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (54:45.454)
I think it gets more intellectual and out of my body.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (54:50.188)
It reminds me of power play, right? Power dynamics. So you could either have the dynamic of dominant, I'm going to talk in heterosexual, mononormative speak for a second. People at home can adjust this to whatever your orientation and whatnot. But in a heterosexual relationship, having the dominant female,
with the you're not allowed to get an erection play is fun, right? And then the flip side of that would be like a dominant male saying, I'm just going to tease and deny you. Because what happens there is when it maybe it goes the way of the erection, you can then be like, okay, and now we can do the thing. Or I do that with clients a lot of like,
no, we're just going to play like we're in high school, right? And we can make out and I'm going to like make you make all these fun noises because you're either you're squirmy, like your body isn't used to having this kind of touch. And so we got to kind of desensitize you a little bit. Maybe just having my mouth right here in your neck is enough to make you become over sensitive to it. You've got to be able to regulate that a little bit. So
So putting limits there, like the tease putting a limit there, my hope for this client that I'm thinking of specifically is that eventually in that play of taking all of that off the table, there will be a point where his erection is showing up consistently so that we can expand that and it won't be such a surprise that either surprise that the erection is there or a surprise that it's not.
It'll just be kind of like, oh, today we get to change the rule. And you get to utilize your erection that showed up. But that's with a goal in mind of getting the erection back. But if the erection's not going to come back, I just think that tease and denial is so much fun. And then once in a while you go farther. It's just like, I love walking out of a space and being, I am so hot right now.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (56:54.903)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (57:15.796)
Like what a great way to start the day or, you know, take that home for masturbation or whatever that is. Like get up, like squeeze all the juice out of that, that you can. Cause like it was fun in high school, at least for me, everybody's experience was very different. But like, I love that just getting hot and bothered and not having to take it somewhere else.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (57:41.13)
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. One, I notice that like, just as you're talking and I think of like something else that we haven't talked so I'm guessing it's fine. I just jump all over the place. Yeah, feel free to guide me. I'll say another part of my journey has been both at times when I've had erection disappointment or different experiences there or.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (57:53.212)
Yes, please.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (58:08.566)
maybe not lasting as long, having sex is what I want. And when I start to talk to my guy friends, which my friends are men, who I am very, very fortunate to have.
Friendships I believe are compared to the norm, a lot deeper, a lot more open and vulnerable and all those things. How much more common these things are than I predict? I'm like, oh, this guy that for whatever reason, I had this story in my head, he wouldn't have that. He's like, oh yeah, I had this at this time, this has helped me. And so that was something that's been really helpful for me is talking to people and being reminded that, like you were sharing it so much more, all these.
diversity of human experience is so much more common than what we often predicted is. It's just that our culture and many of us are afraid to talk about it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (59:04.604)
Yeah, who wants to be the first one to speak up, right? But once you do, if you do take that chance, that's when you find out that it's really common that you're not alone. Right. And so somebody has to start that conversation. And that's what, you know, another part of, you know, soft cock week, hopefully. Yeah, it might start as a joke. Right. I think a lot of people think soft cock week like, oh, but if it starts some conversations.
then we're farther along than we were before we started. You know, we have some events with this week. By the time this comes out, it will be too late. So join the first event is the soft launch or soft opening, sorry, soft opening. It's a live town hall situation, but it is to create space for people to talk about their experiences.
But I really want people to take that back to their communities. Men struggle with depths of relationship. Women talk about this stuff a lot easier, maybe not always from a place of education, unfortunately, but they at least talk about it. Hopefully they have that one sex geek friend in their group that can point them to good, accurate information. But...
you know, start the conversation and then just get really curious because we live in the internet age. You could pop online and maybe you're not always going to find the best advice, find some good resources for good sex advice and maybe I'll throw some in the show notes for this. But we got to do something. Having you be 20 something years old and your doctor saying you can always try Vagra. Like you can and there are risks to it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:01:01.069)
It reminds me, I have a friend, maybe I should see if he wants to come on to talk about, he had a stroke after using Viagra. So like it's not without risk.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:01:10.654)
Yeah. And, and one of my biggest thing was like, it was like the only thing. It was the only thing that he mentioned. Like it wasn't, you know, here's four things and try these other three first. It was.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:01:25.524)
Yeah, yeah. But good for you for going to your doctor because that's the thing that I wanna really emphasize this week is that go get a medical checkup first. You could have underlying health condition that really could use attention. It's not to be ignored. A person that helps me with this week, her personal story is losing a partner.
because they didn't catch undiagnosed diabetes. And they just, they could have with the erection issue found more information. So we don't wanna ever minimize this to say erectile disappointment isn't a big deal. It doesn't need to be beyond making sure you're still healthy. You know?
Yeah. That feels somber. That feels like a... That feels really... Yeah. But it's reality and it's important. Yeah. And the same thing with the risk of medications, right? They're always a risk with medications. I don't know of any medication on the market that doesn't have some kind of risk profile. And we have to decide what risk are we willing to take, educated risk, right? It's the...
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:02:31.836)
Yeah, I am Totally
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:02:51.936)
There's no such thing as safe sex, there's safer sex, right? There's no such thing as taking medication and not having some kind of risk involved. There are lots of ways to decide to engage with your penis, right? You can go the method of medication, you can go the method of implants, you can go all these different ways, I support all of those, do them with education and know that...
An erection is not necessary to have really great partnered sex.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:03:25.29)
Yeah, yeah, 200% Michelle. It reminds me of an experience I had this year. And I think this, it's interesting. At first I was gonna say it was like brand new for me, but it's almost like it was a little bit different, but it's like now it kind of reminds me of maybe a little bit of like high school experience. And it was a new partner and we were cuddling and having like more clear erotic energy for the first time.
I said to her, I'm really enjoying connecting with you on it, and it doesn't feel right to kiss you tonight. And we'd already been on a few dates. And she's like, yeah, I agree. So the whole night we caressed, and there was teasing, and the tension was just like, you could just cut it with a knife. And it was, for both of us, an incredible experience, incredibly enjoyable. So much, like, so interesting. So much more.
memorable than probably like 95% of my penis and vagina to orgasm sex experiences. Yeah, and it was just incredible for both. And yeah, so we both said it was a really amazing experience.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:04:48.777)
No
My colleague, Brian Gibney and I, we go way back. And when I moved to Baltimore from San Diego, I had my first surrogate partner client and Brian had agreed to mentor me. And I was quickly realizing that my training just wasn't really sufficient. And I was like, shit, shit. I don't know what to do. You know, a lot of it was online. It was, I don't think her training is always online but it was like,
post-SestaFosta, there was just a lot of weirdness around our industries. And I had met Brian and he was like, I'd be happy to mentor you. And I'd moved to the mid-Atlantic and Brian is in the mid-Atlantic. And so I get this new client and I panic and I'm like, I don't know how to do Sensate Focus. Like I've watched the videos, but I don't have, I realized I wanted a baseline of how it should feel. Like what is the goal in this exercise?
Like what should I feel in my body if it's going well? Right, so to do that, you don't do that with a client who doesn't know what they're doing to get that baseline. So thankfully he was only a three hour drive away and so I hopped in the car, went to him and he gave me the most amazing hand caress. It was hot as fuck. And it was like just the...
quality of touch and the energy with it was so delicious. And I have this running joke with him is that we had sex that day. Like if you expand your definition of sex, right? That was sex. And we joke about it between us and we reunited, we don't see each other in person very often. And we reunited to go to New York last summer for an interview. And so we're sitting in this coffee shop in New York City.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:06:46.604)
and we're like, you want to recreate the first time we had sex? I mean, we've never actually ever had sex. And so he did the hand caress again on me in the coffee shop. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, it's so good. And I like it. My brain goes to, if he touches my hand that way, I wonder what the rest of his touch is like. And we are never going to go down that road together. But it's just fun to even know that...
that thought is there, that fantasy is there, that's enough. Like it's a fun little flirtation that is stuck in my head. And it's like that same like, oh, the sensual touch or like energetic orgasms. Like, I know this is like way out of most people's, like, what is that?
Like I have had people in my life that I have to have a lot of connection with them to really go to get to that place. But to be able to like not even have like direct genital contact, but have just like orgasms running through your body is like fricking amazing. Would highly recommend and also warn people about it, because to me, it's incredibly bonding. And I would have to go back to my partner and be like.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:08:02.915)
Hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:08.02)
Yeah, that fucks with my head. You need to reclaim this because that's incredibly connective for me. So, yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:08:19.486)
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. It was related to some of what you have been sharing and I've learned on my journey that with the people who I want to be partnered with, they're like a good fit for me, that often me sharing about like my just authentic experience with the erection disappointment or whatever it is,
can be so bonding, you know, can be so vulnerable and then creating closeness and connection and safety and then all that leads to more enjoyable intimacy. And like you were saying that so many people who are female-bodied or with male bodies and all bodies have, you know, often have their experiences and times where they're disappointed or they want things to be different with their bodies. So.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:57.152)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:09:17.63)
And I know when I, I'm pretty certain when I was growing up and younger, I would have thought that like, oh, it was just, yeah, either a me thing, it was like that only men had to worry about sexual performance or only worried about sexual performance. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:09:37.333)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, we're all going through it. We should be kinder to ourselves. I hate to use the word should. My wish, my wish is that we were all kinder to ourselves and more compassionate towards our partners and towards ourselves, right? That conversation is such a turn on for me. Like that's just like part of what does it look like to sexually connect is.
part of that is those kind of vulnerable conversations. Like intimacy, I always think of Len Daley from Cuddle Party past. Always used to really, really hammer down the intimacy is into me you see, right? And if you're not getting vulnerable, if you're not able to show up authentically, there's a wall.
Right? And letting some of that go feels so, so scary. But with an emotionally mature partner, I say that with a caveat, right? I don't wanna put people in the lion's den. But if you've got a partner that you've established some trust and safety with, tiptoeing into some of that if you're not used to doing it, can really, really improve your relationship.
and your connection.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:11:09.251)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I was thinking, it was my journey and sharing for options for people listening or that, some things that I've found really to be helpful for myself and others around some of these topics are finding, let's do the research, like safe group workshops or safe spaces
positive clothing optional, body positive, sexuality positive, and real experiential. So that's been really helpful for me and to see the diversity of different bodies, including penises, and many more are soft at most of the time. If people are ever interested, I do, I've been doing some.
clothing optional, male intimacy workshops that, yeah, it's really powerful for guys to be focusing on connection and emotional and physical intimacy and have boundaries where sex is not on the table in the workshop, but erotic feelings and some erotic touch is. So think.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:12:27.06)
That's men, men with men.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:12:28.848)
Yeah, some of mine lately have been. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:12:31.132)
Okay, just wanted to clarify so that people know exactly like who is it for, right? Yeah.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:12:35.71)
Right, yeah, this is all Man, and yeah, like male to male, men to men, yeah, intimacy has been some of mine. And.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:12:42.144)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:12:48.22)
Are those open to trans and cis men or do you have a specialty?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:12:54.314)
So yeah, great question. I mean, it's just me and yes, like trans men, like I say, like talk to me, have a conversation. I'm personally would love, I personally love diversity and like everyone and I know that yeah, different people in my community are at different levels of evolution. So I'd want to make sure that it'd feel like a safe space. I'd probably have an individual conversation with someone.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:13:21.256)
Yeah, I feel you on that. It's like there's no way to make, it's one thing for us to desire safety for everyone involved, right? And then it's like, how do we, we can't secure it, right? So it's really about helping manage expectations or having a good feel of your group or what have you, yeah. And you're in Philadelphia, correct?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:13:46.89)
Yeah, yep. Thanks Philadelphia based
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:13:49.984)
want to make sure. Do you do any virtual coaching or anything like that?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:13:52.558)
do work with people remotely and travel with people sometimes. And hopefully starting this winter, I'll hopefully do some of those male intimacy workshops in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Hoping so, yeah, maybe in the winter.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:14:06.616)
Oh, that sounds nice. Yeah. Do you do workshops that are for straight men?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:14:15.006)
I have done them in the past, haven't done them lately, and I definitely desire to at some point, yeah, for straight men and all gender workshops. I even, I've been, actually I was talking to Anna Joy and I think she wants, we both wanna do, like in all women's, like all femme workshops as well, yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:14:36.732)
Yeah, yeah. Because I remember you were doing All Mens Cuddle Parties too at one point, right? And that to me, so as another cuddle party facilitator, just People Listening Cuddle Party is a consent communication workshop that happens to use cuddling as an opportunity to practice some of the skills that are in the initial workshop part of the event. And you never actually have to cuddle anybody at a cuddle party.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:14:40.628)
Right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:15:06.74)
What I love, so part of being a cuddle party facilitator was always that question of like, do you balance, do gender balance your workshops? At least I haven't done cuddle parties in years, but I'm assuming it's still a thing that comes up. And I think there is such an amazing opportunity for men to cuddle other men because of their relationship with say their father or just with other men in general to be in a platonic space.
and figure out what kind of connection would feel really good to them. It's such a, oh my goodness, this is not about sex. It's about learning how to connect. And there's healing in men working with men. There really is, no matter what your orientation is, there's so much opportunity there. When you get away from focusing on only cuddling.
with the gender that you're attracted to.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:16:05.386)
Yeah, yeah, 1000% Michelle and 2017. At that time it was only a personal, only part of my personal journey, not professional. I started being involved in a men's platonic, therapeutic touch and cuddling group. You probably have seen the article that went, yeah, the article went famous on our group. And at the time I only identified as straight, so it was a.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:16:25.117)
It went famous.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:16:32.59)
It was a large stretch of my comfort zone at that time, partly because I didn't realize I had some still unprocessed part of trauma from the past. And that work and those men, those times was life changing for me, like person changing. Yeah, in so many ways. So yeah, I think it's so, so good.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:16:57.308)
And yay for evolving sexualities, right? Like, my sexuality, just in general, how I connect to sex has changed so much over the years. Orientation, certainly, what is orientation anymore in my world? I'm just like, if I like you, I like you, I don't really think about what kind of body you come in. But just like even, like, really embracing this responsive desire part of me, that's part of my sexuality.
Recently, I've realized that I don't believe, or it's very rare that I experience sexual attraction. I have sexual desire. And the difference, people go, what's the difference? Well, the difference is, is the desire directed towards someone or is it just a desire? Right? I am so sensually attracted to people. I want to touch them. I want to be close to them. Right?
And that eventually gets me to the sexual desire, but it's not about sexual attraction for me. These are all these little nuances. And like, it's like, it doesn't have to be one way forever. And I think as we get to know ourselves better, of course all these things change, you know? Like you said, trauma, trauma can play a big part in that too. And like, it's like giving yourself permission.
to go, but what if?
What if that's just a story? So, yay to expansive sexuality.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:18:37.166)
Yeah, yeah, yay. Is it okay if I plug my offering in there? I love that. I'm like, my brain just finds ways to, yeah. Yeah, well, so yeah, if someone's interested in possibly serve them to.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:18:38.909)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:18:45.42)
plug away.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:18:49.551)
I know there's so much I'm such a pervert.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:18:54.948)
like you want to plug a plug? I really like the njoy plugs. Those are my favorite. But anyways, I digress.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:19:05.362)
Explore any of these things with me there remotely or in person Yeah, feel free to reach out and at my website cuddling and coaching dot com One word you can also sign up to receive invites to my to my workshops Cuddling and coaching dot com and my if you want to just Google me. My full name is Kyle Robert
Hoffman.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:19:40.485)
Kyle, I'm so glad to know you. Thank you for having what could feel like a really vulnerable conversation. I don't know how you feel about it now. I know with your nerves coming into it. I know other people will say, wow, you are so open. Thank you so much. That must be so difficult. I know when I hear that I go, this is kind of just who I am. But I just want to say if this is important.
I appreciate you. I'm sure that our relationship helps make this easier because I've known you. When did you come to Cuddlist?
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:20:18.998)
2018.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:20:22.225)
Okay, so we have a good chunk of history between us. Well not a lot. Go to Cuddlist.com and catch a picture of me and Kyle with Axes because that's cuddly.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:20:29.978)
Hahahaha
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:20:35.436)
I think that's the only time we've met in person, right? I know, I'm like, when can we get that off the website? I'm the director of training there now. I should have some clout in this. They're redoing the website, so I'm sure it'll be gone. So go to cuddlist.com quickly if you wanna catch Kyle and I with axes Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you in my world. Thank you for asking to be a part of this. And I, you know, I...
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:20:36.367)
the
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:20:49.318)
Yeah, that's right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:21:04.9)
I give my recommendation, like, go check out Kyle. We all, here's the thing. We all gotta find the person that's the right fit for us for support. And it might be Kyle, you know? Who knows? Figure out who you connect with. I think Kyle's got lots of videos out there. There's lots of ways. If this interview wasn't enough to tell you what he's like, there's lots of videos out there. So.
Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks for supporting Soft Cock Week with your, your like giving us a listen, like that's wonderful. Give us a review, follow us. We're only putting out interviews during Soft Cock Week, but they'll be available all year. You can re-listen and we'll see you again next year. Thanks everybody.
Kyle Hoffman - CuddlingAndCoaching.com (01:21:58.062)
Thanks, Michelle. Appreciate you. Appreciate everyone listening.
